Traficant tapes: page 2

J. Traficant: Ain’t got nothing to do with that.

O. Carabbia: All right, where does Vic Calautti come in with Joey? Where with you?

J. Traficant: He didn’t give me no money. Now if he’s in with those fellows, he’s in with them.

O. Carabbia: He gave money (unintelligible).

J. Traficant: All the money I got I brought down here. And all the money we got came from, the first 15 was directly handed to me by the old man at his place. The last 25 was given to me at his place with Sam there. The two other packages of 7,500 apiece were given to Sam from O’Nesti from the old man from what I understand although he could have gotten it from Joey. I don’t know.

C. Carabbia: Jimmy he made (unintelligible).

S. Traficanti: He made a remark that he says that the old man was out of town, he was in Arkansas somewhere.

J. Traficant: He was.

S. Traficanti: He said I had to get the money, I went down and got it off Joey O’Nesti says.

J. Traficant: That’s the last 7,500

C. Carabbia: Well, Brier Hill was in ah, ah.

S. Traficanti: Hot Springs.

C. Carabbia: Hot Springs, Arkansas.

S. Traficanti: Yeah, Hot Springs, Arkansas

C. Carabbia: So, they’re partners.

S. Traficanti: Certainly they are.

O. Carabbia: So there Jim... so that’s about it.

J. Traficant: We didn’t use a dime of their money. All their money came down here.

O. Carabbia: You keep saying you didn’t use a dime of their money.

J. Traficant: No, we brought it down here.

O. Carabbia: What do you mean? You keep saying you didn’t use a dime of their money. They gave you that money. All I did was, just like I told you, this is the way it is, right? But then when he come and get the money where you think he got the money.

J. Traficant: Well, the last package that you got had how much?

A. Chapella: That last package, I think, had 15.

O. Carabbia: No.

A. Chapella: 18, 18, yeah 18.

J. Traficant: I got 18

A. Chapella: 18

C. Carabbia: And, ah, you got the money Andy?

A. Chapella: Yeah, right here, Charlie

C. Carabbia: I’ll take it.

J. Traficant: I didn’t even know the exact...

C. Carabbia: You want some more Jimmy.

J. Traficant: Amounts. No thanks.

C. Carabbia: Joe Ah, er, Sam.

S. Traficanti: No thank you.

J. Traficant: ...the exact amounts in the general nor the primary that you gave us. I don’t even know the exact amount.

O. Carabbia: I do.

J. Traficant: OK, I’m sure you do, and I accept whatever you said i8t was.

O. Carabbia: No, he’s, he’s...

J. Traficant: I didn’t, I never wrote it down.

O. Carabbia: I did. I showed him. I showed him everything that was there.

J. Traficant: OK, I never even wrote it down or nothin’.

O. Carabbia: Well, the only thing is, like you were saying before, you said that Joey, they called them people and Joey got these people and they got their judges and they got these guys and... uh, oh did you say brought you right in the back there?

J. Traficant: Leskovyansky.

O. Carabbia: You believe they got all them people.

J. Traficant: Yeah.

O. Carabbia: You really believe that?

J. Traficant: Yes, I do. I know they got Vukovich.

C. Carabbia: Oh, they definitely got Vukovich.

J. Traficant: I know they got Leskovyansky, I know they got Haynes, I know they got Morley, I know they got Gilmartin.

C. Carabbia: They don’t have Gilmartin.

O. Carabbia: What a minute.

C. Carabbia: Go ahead.

O. Carabbia: Go ahead, I want to see these guys.

J. Traficant: I don’t know all of them. But I know all of them. But I know it’s a fist full.

C. Carabbia: Starks, she said they got Starks.

J. Traficant: They definitely got Starks.

O. Carabbia: why do you, what makes you think that?

J. Traficant: Well I know that Jerry bought the car for Starks for his testimonial. That’s Starks, I know they got Haynes. I know they got Leskovyansky. I know they got Bushel, I know they got Repasky, I know they got Palermo, I know they got Bindas and Barrett.

O. Carabbia: How do you know that Jimmy.

J. Traficant: I know it for a fact.

O. Carabbia: Cause they said it?

J. Traficant: I can just read it all, (unintelligible)... I also know this, that Cafaro and the Old Man are real close.

O. Carabbia: Cafaro?

J. Traficant: And the old man are real close

O. Carabbia: Who?

J. Traficant: Bill Cafaro.

O. Carabbia: Is close to who?

J. Traficant: Jimmy.

C. Carabbia: Brier Hill?

O. Carabbia: No.

J. Traficant: Maybe he isn’t

O. Carabbia: No.

J. Traficant: I know they fight they had with Richley was over that housing they’re building downtown, and Calautti fell out the Richley over that.

O. Carabbia: Aw, but that doesn’t mean.

J. Traficant: They have Richley. I didn’t know that till about a week ago. I never know who had Richley. But I know now. Naples and Jimmy had him through Flask. That’s definite.

C. Carabbia: Through Eddie Flask?

J. Traficant: Yeah. Yeah, they had Meshel. They had Meshel. They had Tablack. Who else is there?

O. Carabbia: Well...

J. Traficant: Give me an office holder’s name, I’ll tell you if they got ‘em. Tucker DeBeradi come to me, Mike Pope come to me and says go sit down with the old man, he’s a good guy. Don’t make a mistake, go sit with the old man.

O. Carabbia: Well, I don’t know who they got and don’t give a...

O. Carabbia: What’s your plans?

S. Traficanti: Let’s put it this way Orlie, we’re here, right.

O. Carabbia: Right

S. Traficanti: We went together, right?

O. Carabbia: That’s right.

S. Traficanti: That’s the end of the story.

O. Carabbia: What happens in the future?

J. Traficant: The future, as far as I’m concerned is whatever deal you make now. You tell me what it is.

O. Carabbia: And how are you going to figure this out. We don’t want to go sit every day. We got a misunderstanding, we got this, we got that. In other words, where do you belong or where do you stand and, you know what I’m saying? We talk, we talk, we talk.

O. Carabbia: Jimmy, what he’s trying to say, are you with us, or are you with Brier Hill and Joey Naples?

J. Traficant: How many times do we got to talk...

O. Carabbia: That’s all we want to (unintelligible).

S. Traficanti: Let’s get something straight.

C. Carabbia: Do you now what I mean?

S. Traficanti: Charlie, excuse me. If he went with, Charlie, with those guys, I’d go home right now.

A. Chapella: Sam told me that.

Male: No (unintelligible)

J. Traficant: How many times did I tell you?

A. Chapella: Well, Jimmy I believe you but...

C. Carabbia: At the last minute you went out there, you went out there at the last minute with them guys without us knowing. That’s what got us worried.

J. Traficant: That was a decision.

C. Carabbia: We’re not worried about the power.

J. Traficant: That was a decision we had to make.

S. Traficanti: I would be thinking, Orlie, the same way as you.

O. Carabbia: With us.

J. Traficant: You know, if I would pull that, I would have gone there, gotten $25,000 took it home. Did the money come down here?

C. Carabbia: Yeah.

J. Traficant: Just the way it was delivered?

C. Carabbia: Yeah.

J. Traficant: How long after?

C. Carabbia: You gave it to me, sitting right here.

J. Traficant: How long after I picked it up I brought it to you?

C. Carabbia: Well, right after you picked it up.

J. Traficant: Not very long after (unintelligible). Am I right Sam?